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1 modified it?
2 MS. SCHOFIELD: We modified it to say
3 education must empower the family, not just the child.
4 And the initial one we had was education -- let me see,
5 teach the family, which I felt like when you toned in
6 teaching the family it made it sound like the family
7 needed education and made it sound like there was
8 something wrong with the family to begin with.
9 MR. HANNA: And in fact I wonder whether it
10 comes down to which you consider as being the primary
11 teacher of the child.
12 The fact is if you take the approach that the
13 family is the primary vehicle for education of the child
14 from the time it's born, then everything is geared
15 toward enabling that family to better do its job as
16 opposed to viewing the family as some sort of obstacle.
17 MS. ALVAREZ: Yes. I think that's why we
18 didn't go with the term. We felt like that best
19 described what we felt like we were trying to do.
20 MS. SCHOFIELD: I think this is a good
21 example of how one sentence, 30, 45 minutes, really
22 discussing what we meant by it, and it went back to what
23 is our vision of what our goal is, and our goal is not
24 to perceive that if they're broken, we have to fix them,
25 but they're assets to the table, how to empower them to
1 make sure the children succeed.
2 MR. HANNA: And it is an issue for your
3 working group, but I would personally want to encourage
4 you all to maybe not in the thesis but certainly
5 emphasize the fact that the parents and the family are
6 the primary educators of the child.
7 And I think that is very -- that is a very
8 different philosophical approach from viewing the state
9 as being -- I mean the state in a very generic sense,
10 the state as being the primary educator of the child,
11 which certain philosophies do take that approach, that
12 the state is in charge of the education of the children
13 and parents are just one component of that. That is one
14 philosophical approach.
15 The other philosophical approach is that the
16 family -- there is primary responsibility and authority
17 for the education of the child and other meditating
18 institutions are there to help the family. I think
19 there is a big distinction there between those two world
20 views, if you will.
21 MS. SCHOFIELD: Do you have an objection how
22 we would state it, or anybody? Does anybody have a
23 suggestion that they would like to share?
24 MR. HANNA: I guess I hadn't thought about
25 specific language, but something along the lines of our
1 commission or working group commission recognize that
2 the family are the primary educators of the child and
3 bear both the responsibility and the authority for the
4 education of the child.
5 MS. ALVAREZ: Now, if you indeed take that as
6 a premise, that has a lot of political and very higher
7 implications, and I don't know if we're ready to present
8 it in that manner.
9 MR. HANNA: I think it does have -- I will
10 agree it has some real ramifications. I think, though,
11 you kind of are either one or the other. You either --
12 ultimately when you shake it all out, that the family
13 bears the ultimate responsibility and authority for the
14 education of the child or you believe somebody else
15 does, whether that's the state, the school, whomever it
16 may be.
17 MR. PARET: At the present time in the laws
18 of this nation isn't that they say that, you know, the
19 nation or, you know, the gold men, whatever it has, has
20 a certain responsibility for giving the child basic
21 information, providing the child's basic education,
22 providing the child with basic education.
23 I think one or the other and one will
24 eliminate the other one situation. I don't know if I
25 would -- if I would be, you know, inclined to consent at
1 this time. You know, you could have the fact that the
2 yeoman -- the state has the obligation to provide a
3 child basic education. That does not remove the
4 responsibility from the parents to also, you know,
5 assist on that basic education and provide the support
6 necessary to make that reality.
7 MR. HANNA: No. Certainly you don't want one
8 excluding the other. That's not what I'm driving at.
9 But the question is ultimately, ultimately who has
10 responsibility for the child's education.
11 By the way, with regard to the laws of the
12 country, constitutionally I'm not sure it's addressed
13 anywhere except for the fact that it is generally
14 regarded that any powers of the government are only
15 powers of the government because the people have given
16 certain powers to the government.
17 So, therefore, with regard to an education I
18 think the state has a role, certainly has a role in
19 education, but the state has that role because parents
20 have given certain powers to the state, but ultimately
21 the parent is still that arbiter for the child.
22 MS. MAZZUCA: Micaela.
23 MS. ALVAREZ: I was just going to comment
24 about the primary responsibility. I think from a
25 cultural perspective that does tie in well and in the
1 presentation this morning she did point out the face
2 phrase in Spanish (Speaking Spanish), which in English,
3 that relates back to the family, you know, what it all
5 I think in that sense we do have a culture
6 perspective to consider the family to be responsible for
7 the education, not just in the sense of both learning,
8 but as a good citizen.
9 MR. VISIEDO: I think you're not disagreeing.
10 I think Micaela is correct in the sense if you look at
11 the constitution it puts the responsibility in educating
12 children at the state level.
13 I think what you're talking about is the
14 broader, and quite frankly as a higher level I think
15 you're talking about guiding the education of our
17 It's the whole aspect of relating culture and
18 history and helping them make the right decisions
19 whether they're going to take a certain course or pursue
20 a certain interest.
21 So I think I would -- in my opinion I don't
22 think there is a disagreement that the primary
23 responsibility for the guidance of a child's education
24 should remain at the family level. However, the primary
25 responsibility of nuts and bolts of delivering it
1 clearly, you know, teaching them how to read, clearly
2 families can do it.
3 I think if we can just clear that up a little
4 bit. I think yours is a broader, more encompassing
5 perspective, which I think I personally agree, and we
6 just need to, you know, sort of focus in on those.
7 A sidebar issue that I do have a little
8 concern about is -- and I'll state it while I got the
9 floor -- I know it's very important for us to raise
10 expectations of young men and women and not have them
11 ultimately just end up taking a job somewhere, but I
12 also have concerns about stating college is the absolute
14 I know of a lot of people that are not
15 college educated that are absolute success and I think
16 that's a very fine line that I would want this
17 commission to tread with very, very carefully, because
18 if at the end of the day your standard for success is
19 college, I philosophically have a problem with it.
20 So I don't think that ought to be the
21 absolute end goal. I think there are a lot of other
23 Now, again, it's a fine line to walk because
24 you don't want to give people an excuse not to pursue
25 that option, but I would philosophically have a problem
1 in saying the absolute success standard you have to be
2 college educated or else anything below that you're not
3 going to be a success, and I just have a problem with
5 MS. SCHOFIELD: I mirror what you were saying
6 and I think you both are right, and as a working group
7 we'll go back to look at our thesis statement.
8 I would like to say we all know when we say
9 the parent is their number one teacher, again the nuts
10 and bolts, we don't want to let the teachers off the
11 hook on accountability. Accountability on the part of
12 educators still needs to be there. It's an example of
13 that challenge, because you can see we have to work with
14 the education group so that there is that component
16 With regards to the college aspect, in our
17 thesis we didn't refer to the college part of it. In
18 our goal it's an opportunity and having it read so that
19 if they do. I still think maybe as a commission we need
20 to talk about that.
21 But with the amount of research that's out
22 there and the reason that we are all here is because of
23 the education that we have and the college opportunities
24 that we have. So I don't want to let that go, too, and
25 maybe -- and I agree there are other things that other
1 people can do that also shows success, but I want to
2 make sure that all of the children that I see, that they
3 have that same opportunity and vision and goal and
4 training that every other child -- that they have a goal
5 to go to college.
6 So maybe that's the question we need to ask.
7 Do we need to discuss this as a commission? Because I
8 think we will move forward as a working group. Do you
9 still want to make sure that all our children have an
10 opportunity to be here?
11 MR. HANNA: Charlie.
12 MR. GARCIA: I think when you use words like
13 success, it has a judgmental term. I think if we define
14 it more in terms of we want to give Hispanic children
15 the opportunity so that they can earn and be as
16 productive in society as possible and then take the
17 statistics from the Labor Department and say, look, we
18 are in a knowledge-based economy, in 1980 someone with a
19 high school or a college degree was making X and 20
20 years later it's three times X and the job in the labor
21 pool has shifted, and if you drop out, this is what
22 you're going to make. If you go to high school, this is
23 what you're going to make. If you get a baccalaureate
24 degree, you can clearly say obviously we would prefer to
25 have Hispanic children, maintaining four times X and X.
1 But try to push it in that area without being
2 judgmental, you're not a success unless you go to
3 college. I think we need to outline if you don't go to
4 college there is a big disparity in your earning
6 MS. SCHOFIELD: I just want to -- I don't
7 want to go off on a tangent, but at the same time I want
8 to clear up some miscommunication. Nowhere on here did
9 we say success as part of our thesis are part of our
10 goal. So if someone heard that, I want to make sure
11 that's clear.
12 I would like to read the thesis again.
13 Education must empower the family, not just the child.
14 And then the goal was to review current practices and
15 draft a recommendation to implement nationally where
16 there will be a vision that all students can attend
18 MR. VISIEDO: I guess that's --
19 MS. SCHOFIELD: We can look at that as a
20 working group again.
21 MR. VISIEDO: I concur with you that every
22 child should be empowered and have the skill set to make
23 that decision, but I think I just have a -- you know,
24 making that the final standard I guess concerns me.
25 MS. SCHOFIELD: Would that help, though, at
1 least we know that it's clear enough that the word
2 success is not there? I think what I'm hearing is we as
3 a working group need to go back and look at our goals
4 statement, and maybe that would help out.
5 MR. VISIEDO: I'm only one commissioner.
6 MR. HANNA: I'm going to call on Leslie and
7 then I'm go to Joe and then to Micaela and then to
9 MS. SANCHEZ: I want to clarify the theme of
10 college. The theme of college is the thing we use with
11 the president. It is something we come out of the White
12 House. It is the specific term we use in the White
13 House initiative. We do address it with the qualifier.
14 The president is every child has the opportunity.
15 It's exactly what you just said to choose
16 whether or not they would like to go to college. Our
17 challenge is because such a small percentage actually do
18 culturally believe it's a reality for them, the
19 commission, you're thinking of an aspiration awareness
20 effort of changing the culture of the mind-set of the
21 homes, you're going to college, just so more people
22 believe it's reality.
23 Two, we don't want these weird expectations,
24 so they are not a success, so they don't meet this.
25 By college in terms of the White House
1 initiative we used the term anything beyond high school.
2 It could be vocationally, apprenticeship, anything. The
3 goal is they just complete high school so they can
4 continue education beyond high school.
5 It is one of the words that can mean
6 different things and maybe that's one of the things that
7 the commission would want to consider, is a good clear
8 definition or maybe an introduction of the work force of
9 having a clear definition of what it is you were trying
10 to say.
11 I don't know if that helps.
12 MR. CANCHOLA: For some reason or another
14 I've been in the private sector where, you
15 know, I sit in a room with over-achievers. I can tell
16 you regardless, you know, they're always looking for us
17 and they can seem to be able to locate us. And I'll say
18 the sheep skin makes a big difference in society and
20 You go in the banks to borrow money. I put
21 my hand on his business pad, it's a lot easier getting
22 it with a Latino who's been there, who had to wash
23 dishes and commit to the decision whether he's going to
24 lend you money.
25 Engineering, I see many young people in
1 corporate America that know a lot more people with MBAs
2 or whatever, but the fact they don't have the sheep skin
3 is about 30, $40,000 difference in their pay. And I
4 think it's so important that we really tell these kids,
5 why you have to go to college and in order to achieve.
6 Regardless if you get the opportunity or not, they can't
7 take it away from you.
8 MR. HANNA: Micaela and then Grace.
9 Since you're the chairman of the working
10 group, at any time you want to respond to these, just
11 interrupt my order.
12 MS. ALVAREZ: The other point I was going to
13 make, sending you to college has the definition of
14 success. I don't think any of us are saying that.
15 I think what we're attempting to do is close
16 the achievement gap, which means that hopefully at some
17 point down the road statistically the Hispanic
18 population will be at an equal level to the Anglo
19 population. It doesn't mean everybody has to go to
20 college because that isn't I think a reality, but
21 statistically our numbers correlate to the Anglo
23 So in the Anglo population if 80 percent are
24 going to college; hopefully, that's what we got, 80
25 percent going to college, so that there is not a barrier
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